From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Apr 10 11:01:32 2002 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3AA1Wd28369 for <suaaz@mail.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:01:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@agave [137.205.192.52]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3AA0O706726; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:00:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daemon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g3A9rTQR018593 for <britdisc-outgoing@agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:30 +0100 (BST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0/Submit) id g3A9rTJD018592 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g3A9rTQR018587 for <britdisc-real@majordomo.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from firefly.csv.warwick.ac.uk (firefly [137.205.65.247]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3A9rS705177 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from Warwick-Message_Server by firefly.csv.warwick.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:26 +0100 Message-Id: <scb419a6.003@firefly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:20 +0100 From: "Dave Neilson" <D.P.Neilson@warwick.ac.uk> To: <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I would warn against the idea of imposing too many restrictions on the make-up of teams. Offer incentives, by all means, for the geo model if that seems appropriate, but the idea of outlawing telephone teams is crazy! I beg to differ with Ben about the inability of 'old boys' (& girls of couse) teams achieving "anything serious or long-term". The case of STAN must be considered as counter-evidence to Ben's argument. Formed as a splinter group of the then national champions, STAN was composed almost entirely of ex-Bears who chose to play together as they shared a common style and sense of humour. Despite averaging about one practice per year, they stayed together for 12 years - yes TWELVE! - and were rarely outside of the top three teams in the country. I know times have changed, but the potential still exists - I have witnessed first hand the very high standard of the top student teams and many established 'club' teams owe their strength to a series of graduates from the same institution (NB not quite the same thing as 'cherry picking'). Please note, I am not actively promoting this model, but using it as an example of how flawed some armchair theorists can be! The observation about the mobility of "young professionals" is also an important factor in this debate ... although I must admit that few would say that any STAN player was ever "young" and we could never be accused of being "professional" in any way, shape or form! Thanks for your time. I'm off to New Zealand, so why should I care? ... Well I do! Sam Neilson PS What was it Mel Gibson said in Braveheart? ... "You can take away our telephones, but you can never take away our FREEDOM!" ... forcing the geo model could result in civil war! >>> "Ben Ravilious" <ben@ravilious.net> 10/04/2002 08:10:05 >>> Jon, If you ask me, travelling all that way to play with your chosen team is crazy but thats your choice! If we're talking about doing something for the good of the sport it would be much more helpful if you brought your experience (and loyalty) to a local team near you. I appreciate that that is easier said than done though. I also despair at the number of university 'old boys' teams which spring up each year. I can understand wanting to stay in contact with uni friends and maybe playing a few fun tournaments together for a laugh but there's no way these teams are going to achieve anything serious or long-term unless you live near each other. Now that we have contact details for everyone I very much want to encourage graduates to go find (or start) a local team they can contribute to. This will be better for them in the long run (you get to play regularly!) and help strengthen of regionally-based teams. I believe the geo rules for the Tour simply say that all players must live within a 75 mile radius of somewhere - correct me if I'm wrong - its never been an issue for my team! Enough from me now I think. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Good" <funky_like_a_train@hotmail.com> To: <ben@ravilious.net>; <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Sent: 09 April 2002 22:30 Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments > >Playing in international tournaments is fantastic fun and I'm glad I've > > >been lucky enough to have done this on a number of occasions myself. > > >However, as individual players we must recognise that doing this should > > >be on the basis of long-term commitment to a team. If we have this > >attitude then we will end up with more committed teams and therefore more > > >*individual* players getting the chance to attend. Heck if you're not > > >going to Hawaii go to Brugge/Rotterdam/Rimini/wherever instead - you will > > >still have a good time and you don't need UK Ultimate to approve your > > >roster for this!!! > > Ben, > I have to agree with you on the player loyalty issue. I've played for > BAF for about 5 years now, through my university career in Scotland. I think > player loyalty is hard as Ultimate comes from a student base, and as such a > lot of younger (no offense to 'older' players) players move around the > country a lot as they go to uni and the struggle to find a job. I may well > have this wrong but for geo teams aren't you supposed to live nearer them > than any other team? These two things just don't add up. If I am right > (doubtful) on the geo team thing, can't we have some kind of waver for > players who have been at the club for a decent length of time? Sorry if I've > got my facts wrong but I can't check them at the moment. > > Le Boeuf > #44 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > >