From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Thu Nov 8 12:56:37 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fA8CoYT05731 for britdisc-outgoing; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:50:34 GMT Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fA8CkLX04285 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:46:22 GMT Received: from mail.london-2.starlabs.net (mail.london-2.starlabs.net [212.125.75.4]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fA8CQCm11621 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:36:15 GMT X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 11619 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 12:23:26 -0000 Received: from mail.oyster.co.uk (HELO aurora.oyster.co.uk) (193.132.201.148) by server-42.tower-1.london-2.starlabs.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 12:23:26 -0000 Received: by AURORA with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <V0LLSDTW>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:26:01 -0000 Message-ID: <7165D5A55FC4D41184DB00D0B7B9E62D036D6067@AURORA> From: Roger Thomson <Roger.Thomson@oyster.com> To: "'Lewis Glover'" <loopy1019@hotmail.com>, Roger Thomson <Roger.Thomson@oyster.com>, wayne@phidelta.demon.co.uk, j_hammersley@hotmail.com, adam@ummedia.com, simon.norris@virgin.net, ken@kenandjana.com, philipharveynz@hotmail.com, nick.dray@geseaco.com, mungo.sheppard@camden.gov.uk, john.armitage@ic.ac.uk, PorteMat@exchange.uk.ml.com, kacheng@yahoo.com, nolan@firebrand.co.uk, lewis@lglover.freeserve.co.uk Cc: londonleague@yahoogroups.com, britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: Qualification for Winter League Matchday 2 + PS about Ultimatum Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:26:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk MatchDay 2 is on the 25th November and the 6 teams who stayed up for sure (Clapham 1 and 2, Druids, Sharks, S&G, Fever) are waiting to see who'll join them in the next clash of the London Winter League titans. It had been proposed that other teams would 'qualify' this weekend (10th or 11th) in Regent's park. DEFINITELY IN: Hammerage Sublime NOT HEARD FROM: BadHabits DiscDoctors CloudThings Pyramus Could someone from each of those last 4 teams get in touch urgently please, none of your captains have replied to my mails. Especially DiscDoctors and CloudThings as you sounded so keen and this is in your back yard... Thanks Roger PS Great Ultimatum Jack. I thougt it really reflected the surge of popularity and ability we've seen in British Ultimate we've seen in the last few years. If the UK Ultimate website was kept current with decent content like that we'd really be taking another big step forward. None of the to-be-elected lot seem to have very detailed proposals about this, would one of you like to comment? An improvement of the site in this direction would be minimal work and would really help consolidate our growing community. >Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:17:59 -0000 > >My organisational powers, although heralded as magical, have been suffering >due to severe work and domestic problems. I beg forgiveness but had rather >hoped you crowd would come to a decision as to the best thing to do without >me. Sorry, but I just never figured on having to run two divisions, don't >really have the time, and need more help than has thus far been >forthcoming. > >Teams in the frame: >Hammerage - eager to know if they have to play this weekend >BadHabits >DiscDoctors - said 'hope to get a team together' but have had no >confirmation. >CloudThings >Pyramus and Frisbee >Sublime - seem interested and want to play this weekend > >Let's see who wants to play this weekend. You can make room on Clapham or >play in Regent's - I care not. You must play with the newly introduced >roster rule IF you want to qualify (any teams breaking the rule must >declare >themselves at the onset so others know what they need to acheive). > >PLEASE ALL DECLARE YOURSELVES IMMEDIATELY OR WE'RE CHUFFED!!! > >If we don't get enough then I'll decide who gets in (probably relegating >only BadHabits and deciding between DiscDoctors and Cloudthings as next two >on the waiting list - asking them to play each other or tossing a coin). > >In future you could all play in a second division on the same date if you >want - and we'll swap top and bottom ONE team each time. But it's up to you >teams as the most likely to compose the bottom division; I don't want or >have the time to do it all for you. If you get it going you are bound to > >Sorry, all I can do. > >Roger > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Thomson >Sent: 29 October 2001 16:04 >To: 'Wayne Retter'; 'James Hammersley'; 'adam@ummedia.com'; 'Nolan'; >'simon.norris@virgin.net'; ken@kenandjana.com; philipharveynz@hotmail.com; >'Dray,Nick'; 'Sheppard, Mungo'; 'Armitage, John'; 'Porter, Matthew >(London)'; 'Lewis Glover'; 'Kynan Cheng'; 'nolan@firebrand.co.uk' >Subject: London Winter League Matchday 1: Results - READ CAREFULLY AND >REPLY! > > >NEWSFLASH: Sharks and Druids throw away leads against Clapham 1 and 2 >respectively in their pool games; Druids losing to Clapham 2 in a penalty >shoot-out ending at 12-12. Clapham 2 pay for failing to convert possesion >into a 2 point lead - Clapham 1 grind out a 13-10 final victory. NightFever >get 6 off Clapham 2, confound seedings and avoid relegation by spanking >Hammerage 13-5. No rain, lots of beer! > >Thanks all for coming down and making it a great day. It all went off >rather >well :-) > >Full results: >A: Clapham A (1), TeamShark (4), Smash & Grab (5), BadHabits (8) >B: Clapham B (2), Fluid Druids (3), Hammerage (6), NightFever (7) >10am: Captain's meeting >10.30am: 1v8(12-3), 4v5(13-4), 2v7(13-6), 3v6(13-3) >11.45am: 1v5(15-1), 4v8(13-3), 2v6(13-2), 3v7(13-2) >1pm: 1v4(12-10), 5v8(13-5), 2v3(13-12), 6v7(5-13) >2.30pm: A1vB1(13-10), A2vB2(13-11), A3vB3(13-8), A4vB4(13-5) > >Dougie and I spent a while last night pondering the best methods for giving >out points. Our favourite proposed scoring method is: >1/ For each game, number of points your team scored plus the goal >difference >if you win. This gives losing teams the incentive to score as many as they >can, as well as the winning team an incentive to win by as much as >possible. >2/ No quadrupling or doubling of points for the final or semi. >3/ 80 points for coming 1st, 70 for 2nd........10 for 8th. This stretches >the gap between finishing positions a bit to avoid the previously discussed >non-linearities of 3rd getting more points than 2nd (and 5th more than 4th >etc etc) unless they really get some significantly more resounding >victories >(which they didn't). We tried lots of combinations of quadrupling points, >not point difference and all sorts of things, but couldn't think of >anything >better. > >Points would read: >Clapham 1 - 158 >Clapham 2 - 138 >Fluid Druids - 134 >TeamShark - 116 >Smash & Grab - 84 >NightFever - 67 >Hammerage - 51 >BadHabits - 26 > >These point scores would seem to reflect the relative closenesses of games >and teams pretty well. Druids get nearly as many points as Clapham 2 >because >they had a 1 point better goal difference in pool play and only lost the >'semi' by 1. Team Shark were a bit further behind because they were too >soft >on the easy teams in their pool and didn't get within 2 of Clapham 1 or >Druids. The four lower placed teams were fairly linear - except Habits who >were a bit further behind. > >Comments? Opinions? I'm not set on this and am happy to change - I quite >like the experimental nature of how we organise all this - will provide >more >lessons for the future I think if we fine tune as we go along. > >Could the teams please reconfirm their desire to play on Matchday 2, and >supply phone numbers if you haven't managed to do so so far (Sharks, >Hammerage, Habits....). > >And comment on the next two provisional dates: Matchday 3 - 12th January, >Matchday 4 - 10th or 17th February. Whaddya fink? > >Oh, and the following teams still owe me £20 (fee was reduced because of no >marked pitches): Druids, TeamShark, Fever, Hammerage, Habits. I make no >apologies for still charging for the event: we want to have prizes and >maybe >a party, we still haven't given up on the marked pitches, it represents >remarkable value for money vis-a-vis ANY other competetive fixture, and it >is widely recognised that tournament organisers make some profit for their >teams or themselves. Please send your cheques straight away (for this and >the next event) to Roger Thomson, 19 Clapham Mansions, Nightingale Lane, >London, SW4 9AQ. > >RELEGATION AND QUALIFICATION >Hmmm - to be honest I don't think we anticipated the level of interest we'd >get for the Winter League. There are 4 teams on the waiting list: >DiscDoctors, Cloudthings, Pyramus and Sublime. I very much want to give >them >the chance to participate, but it has to be in a way that satisfies the top >teams desire to play the 'best of the rest' while still having *some* churn >at the bottom. Given that there are 4 of you we could either: relegate >BadHabits for sure and leave Hammerage in - leaving those 4 on the waiting >list to play for one slot at a one-off qualification event. I dislike that >because I'd like to encourage the 'second division' and not exclude >BadHabits from any competitive play for several months. I prefer playing >making Hammerage requalify as well and giving Habits another chance - >therefore making a 6 team qualification event (maybe in North London on Nov >10th or 11th??). 2 pools of 3, one crossover - with the rule that to >requalify Hammerage or Habits have to win the whole thing (ie second isn't >good enough for them but it is for teams which weren't just relegated). >That >should satisfy the churn requirement whilst ensuring quality remains high. >I'd like to add one roster requirement - if you play for a team in the 2nd >division and they get promoted - you've got to play for them in the 1st >division. Otherwise there's a danger that certain players will get weaker >teams promoted, but go back and play with stronger teams in the 1st >division >- leaving weaker teams than there should be for the top teams to beat up on >(no fun). Are you all willing to play in a qualification day, and the >League >proper on the 25th if you qualify? Lewis (Druids and Sublime, hmm wonder >why >I mentioned that...) has kindly offered to organise. What do you think? Is >it too much hassle? Would you rather we just demote 2 and move 2 up from >the >waiting list? Would you rather we do it on seedings (which would mean >little >churn at the bottom as I've no idea how good/bad the other teams are)? We >may only need a couple of qualification events in all to establish who's >stronger than whom, but at the same time if there's interest there's no >reason not to do it more often. I'd very much value opinions from the teams >in those positions as I would like this to evolve as a communal kind of >thing............but at the same time need to ensure that it's the stronger >teams that get the slots in the first division. > >Congrats to NightFever for avoiding the battle! > >Oh - there was some Lost Property, but I err, <eek> lost it in the pub >after >too many beers </eek>. I'm sure someone else must have picked it up. The >only thing I still have is a Czech T-shirt that I think is Carthorse's. >Next >time I will appoint a Lost Property monitor I promise. > >Have I forgotten anything? Probably...please let me know. Thanks again for >making it a great day, and a step forward for Ultimate in the South. > >Cheers, >Roger > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Thomson >Sent: 26 October 2001 16:50 >To: Roger Thomson; 'Wayne Retter'; 'James Hammersley'; 'adam@ummedia.com'; >'Nolan'; 'simon.norris@virgin.net'; ken@kenandjana.com; >philipharveynz@hotmail.com <mailto:philipharveynz@hotmail.com> ; >'Dray,Nick'; 'Sheppard, Mungo'; 'Armitage, John'; 'Porter, Matthew >(London)' >Cc: britdisc; ClaphamBullfrogs@yahoogroups.com; >londonleague@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: London Winter League Matchday 1 > > >Sorry to bother you all again. > >Remember it's the end of BST this weekend, so if you turn up at the Common >at 9.00am you're a muppet. We get an extra hour of sleep, or more likely of >partying on Saturday night :-) > >God bless Ultimate, > >Silver Bear >CU #1 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Thomson [mailto:Roger.Thomson@oyster.com] >Sent: 25 October 2001 12:28 >To: 'Wayne Retter'; 'James Hammersley'; 'adam@ummedia.com'; 'Nolan'; >'simon.norris@virgin.net'; ken@kenandjana.com; philipharveynz@hotmail.com; >'Dray,Nick'; 'Sheppard, Mungo'; 'Armitage, John'; 'Porter, Matthew >(London)' >Cc: britdisc; ClaphamBullfrogs@yahoogroups.com; >londonleague@yahoogroups.com >Subject: London Winter League Matchday 1 > > >okeydokey, sorry to bore you sports-hallers with this: > >Wayne has been advising me of formats for Sunday and we've decided to do 2 >pools of 4, with one crossover game each to finish the day off. Pools will >be seeded: A: 1,4,5,8 B: 2,3,6,7 ;in order that 'semis' have happenned >(as opposed to the Tour pools which avoid that). Clapham will be entering 2 >fairly even teams, and as all teams are slightly weakened vis-a-vis >Nationals teams the seedings are: >A: Clapham A (1), TeamShark (4), Smash & Grab (5), BadHabits (8) >B: Clapham B (2), Fluid Druids (3), Hammerage (6), NightFever (7) > >The council has let us down on the marked pitch front (Boo!) as Paul H >seems >to have developed a confrontational relationship with the rather unfriendly >pitches person (only joking Paul). Even my silver tongue couldn't make her >change her mind though so we'll have to make do without (and she was a real >b*t*h). It may cause some inconvenience but shouldn't be too disruptive. >There's plenty of room for four pitches and we'll set them up no bother. >Four pitches means we can finish in 4 time slots and can take it all at a >more chilled pace without the need to start at 9am or finish in the dark. > >The pitches will be right by Clapham South tube station and by the pond a >few hundred yards away. > >10am: Captain's meeting >10.30am: 1v8, 4v5, 2v7, 3v6 >11.45am: 1v5, 4v8, 2v6, 3v7 >1pm: 1v4, 5v8, 2v3, 6v7 >2.30pm: A1vB1, A2vB2, A3vB3, A4vB4 >4pm: Derby vs Chelsea <eek> and beers down the George > >Games will be to one hour then finish the point. If one team is more than 2 >points ahead - game over, otherwise cap to ONE point over the team ahead's >total. The reason for this is to allow us to keep to schedule whilst still >giving team's a chance to come back at the last minute. There seem few >disadvantages compared to a two point cap - teams will just have to start >playing harder at 50 minutes and realise the one point cap is their >Solskjaeresque last chance....Am happy to discuss at the captain's meeting. >If it's a sudden death - we play penalty shootout ending and all other 6 >teams gather round in amazement 8-). Only exception is the crossover games >- >where we should play 2 point cap regardless of closeness of the ending. >Teams that are late can be fined 1 point per 2 minutes late, and forfeit >the >game if they're more than 10 minutes late (the Committe will decide what to >do about point differences). > >The team that finishes bottom will definitely be relegated and replaced for >Matchday 2 in November. The 7th place team *may* be given the chance to >requalify by playing the teams lower down the waiting list (which currently >consists of 3 teams: Imperial DiscDoctors, CloudThings, Pyramus & Frisbee) >- >depending on those team's ability/willingness to play one or more >qualification games before Matchday 2). Ideally those games would happen at >a self-organised one-dayer on the 10th or 11th of November (and develop >into >a second division playing out of sync with the first division), but >unfortunately I don't have the time to organise or dictate; if nothing >happens you'll be subject to our whim and rather limited concept of >fairness, sorry but can't think of any alternative. If you'd like to add >your team to the list for November, you've got until Sunday 10.30am to mail >me. > >Forecast is for light rain or cloudy weather. Could team captains please >supply mobile numbers to me and your teams so that just in case we get hit >by freak hail storms I can ring the captains and they can get in touch with >team members. I'll be able to check the weather as I live less than 20 >yards >from the pitches - my mobile number is 07973 620845 but PLEASE DON'T RING >B4 >8am on pain of disqualification and death. > >TOP CLAPHAM TIP: Bring a bin liner with your kit - a wonderful and cheap >waterproof bag with room for your bag and a friend's: if I'd thought of it >sooner we'd be selling Clapham branded ones at £1 each. > >3 days left - pray for no rain, and that NightFever and Hammerage beat >Druids! ;-) > >Kind regards >Silver Bear >CU #1 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Thomson [mailto:roger.thomson@oyster.com] >Sent: 19 October 2001 12:46 >To: 'Wayne Retter'; 'James Hammersley'; 'adam@ummedia.com'; 'Nolan'; >'simon.norris@virgin.net'; ken@kenandjana.com; philipharveynz@hotmail.com; >'Dray,Nick'; 'Sheppard, Mungo'; 'Armitage, John'; 'Porter, Matthew >(London)' >Cc: britdisc; ClaphamBullfrogs@yahoogroups.com; >londonleague@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ClaphamBullfrogs] London Winter League News > > >The following teams have secured places at the 1st event on Sunday 28th >October; on the basis that they were the first to apply, and on the basis >that they're the strongest teams on Nationals rankings: > >Clapham 1 >Druids >TeamShark >Clapham 2 >Smash & Grab >Hammerage >NightFever >Badhabits > >Please could the captains of these teams who have been mailing me send a >confirmatory email ASAP (also confirming you want to play at the 2nd >event). >Final seedings will be dictated by how Clapham decide to split their squad. >Format and other details will be circulated next week. Expect games to >start >on Clapham Common at 10 or 11am. We are making progress on the pitch >markings and should have 3 permanently marked pitches in time and all >winter >- provided Paul Hurt can bully the council into moving faster than their >accustomed glacier pace. Cost will be £30/team regardless, no need to send >cheques - please bring £££'s on the day. > >Very sorry, the following two teams also applied but unfortunately we don't >have space to cater for them: >Imperial College Discdoctors >Cloudthings > >Please could the captains of these two teams confirm that they would still >like to enter the 2nd event on Sunday 25th November. We will decide very >soon whether there will be some form of one-off qualification game against >the relegated teams, whether you will get a slot due to having been on the >waiting list, or some mixture of the two. Rest assured there will be >relegation of AT LEAST one team and one of you, if not both, will get the >chance to play in November: the bottom teams in the League really do have >something to play for! > >Any other teams wanting to enter the 2nd event on Sunday 25th November are >still welcome to apply, please do so before the deadline of Sunday 28th >October. > >Pick-up players or ringers please contact the team captains directly. There >are no roster rules, and some of the teams will probably appreciate quality >ringers because of missing players. > >!!! Does anyone have scoreboards we could borrow please? Would make the >whole thing look a little more organised..!!! While I'm on that subject >doesn't someone have a word doc about how to be a Tournament Director and >formats and things? Might be helpful. Thanks. > >Comments/Questions/Amusing ideas to me at this address. > >Kind regards, >Roger > >CU #1 > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------- >Internet communications are not secure and therefore Oyster Partners Ltd >does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any >views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not >necessarily represent those of Oyster Partners Ltd. > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.1650662.3186813.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705070 0 >63:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085> > ><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=213858.1650662.3186813.1261774/D=egroupma i >l/S=1705070063:HM/A=763352/rand=714656219> > >You've been Ribbeted by the Bullfrog Boys! Will you sink or swim, >pond-life? > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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Any >views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not >necessarily represent those of Oyster Partners Ltd. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------- Internet communications are not secure and therefore Oyster Partners Ltd does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Oyster Partners Ltd.