From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Sat Mar 10 02:14:48 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) id f2A2AGm11627 for britdisc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:10:16 GMT Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f2A1cgv09640 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:38:43 GMT Received: from netmail.co.uk (netmail.netmail.co.uk [194.205.11.2]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with SMTP id f29N0EL03284 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 23:00:19 GMT Received: from PROXY2 (PROXY2 [194.205.11.21]) by netmail.co.uk (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.afxy) with ESMTP id na610233 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:58:47 +0000 Received: from ben [218.99.151.24] by vac.uk.com [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.84.R) for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:21:46 +0000 From: "Ben Rolfe" <ben.rolfe@vac.uk.com> To: <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Ultimate & Britdisc - enjoyable, competitive and presentable Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:21:18 -0000 Message-ID: <001601c0a8c5$bce63100$189763da@ben> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk X-Return-Path: ben.rolfe@vac.uk.com Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk "people do need reminding that sensible discussion will bring us all nearer a golden mean, but that jibes and insults and puerile sarcasm gets us nowhere and instead only serves to irritate those who do so much for the game that we all claim to love." The fabled Golden mean and puerile sarcasm all in the same sentence? Someone might need reminding this is Britdisc and not a lecture hall, can't it be fun at times (even/esp when under stress)? And why claim - I think we all love the sport don't we? "If we want Ultimate to be a serious, competitive, enjoyable sport that continues to grow in the country" how about just enjoyable and competitive? FYI seriousness does not equate to professionalism. *Professionalism is about money and conduct; hence the need for the BUA*: as well as rules of conduct for players AND TDs, how about some prize money for the tour and/or nationals in 2002 and see what that could do by way of Sponsorship-Publicity (also a good way of getting a bit of extra money to top players/teams who would be taking GB Ultimate abroad). Have a go at defining this "serious" thing everyone's on about (eg Paulo and Ruth ages ago), sure it's in the dictionary with a whole string of adjectives, but, I believe, in the sporting context it relates to ability, ambition and the lengths one would go to to attain "success". Now define success in ultimate; beating the opposition and having fun, and there we are straight back to compete and enjoy without a mention of the word serious. If u really want to get "serious" forget about SOTM;-) I'm afraid, and that comes from speaking with athletes, basketballers, soccerplayers (all people who could be playing) and the BBC (the people who could be watching) - none of whom get their heads round it actually working and thus perceive the game as "quirky", unlike (watch out - "joke" comin) dope toking university students who are at present our main recruits. "Surely we're all aware that the representation of the truth is often more important than the truth itself." I think "sometimes" instead of "often" would be preferable. As for growth - I dunno - is ultimate growing in this country?? If we register all the players who actually want to play (more than they want to get stoned and/or pissed!) we might know if and where it is growing, and more significantly why and how. For such a good "product" I feel we're not seeing the growth we could - this could be due to a flaw in our marketing "strategy". Fairplay to Stig and Chris (b4 anyone asks yes- Daniel is my nephew!!), Charlie, Hurricanes, and every1 else pulling others into the game, but should we rely solely on these rare and beautiful(ly) well placed people's good nature and bravery (I guess no-one ever imagined careers would be on the line for ultimate) to promote our sport? Having said this we (the Ultimate community - through the good work of the BUF) do OK for very little funding. Ben, Ian et al do a good job - but lets stop kissin butt and put our money where our mouths are (!). At the same time let's try not to rely solely on institutions to take OUR sport forward (apologies to the Disc-golfers - like everyone else on BritDisc (except the events diary!) I'm talking Ultimate ;-) Cheers, and a good weekend to all, mb PS in case u missed it - that was a rant in support of a professional association AND an open-minded free-for-all britdisc alongside it/in amongst it! (ok, plus a bit of gut reaction to something that _sounded_ a bit up-the-arse-facist-bully-boy, soz Rich - may the force b with u)