From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Feb 28 13:23:46 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) id f1SDLE320894 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:21:14 GMT Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f1SDLAh20867 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:21:10 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (oe48.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.20]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f1SDL9F24519 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:21:09 GMT Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:20:45 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [212.140.165.130] From: "Kevin Lowe" <Kev_lowe@hotmail.com> To: "Britdisc" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: WINNERS DONT USE DRUGS Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:23:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: <OE480bbdYQKGx5xSFwe00000314@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2001 13:20:45.0123 (UTC) FILETIME=[41B33930:01C0A189] Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Feel I've got to jump in now. I liked the responsible attitude show by David Wynd (TD) apologising for what happened, and taking on board the lessons learnt from that. It was a mistake waiting to happen, it happened, learn from it and move on. No need to any heavy handedness from the BUF sanctioning Nottingham Ultimate or those involved. Great! Then we get Dan's email (guy who bought the prizes). Given Paul's (Stig) email, and then Chris White's, I find it amazing that Dan feels he only 'respects his point' but feels no need to apologise. Sure, it was 'only a little fun' but jeopardising someone's career, no matter how unintentional deserves better than that. And as for the patronising "remember kids, winners don't take drugs", I'm just lost for words. The problem here is not that there were juniors and their parents present, but it's about the public perception of this sport. We've had radio, newspaper and TV reporters at tournaments before. We often have members of the public watching games or the presentation at the end. Any one of them could land us in it. And Tom, I disagree with the analogy with alcohol. Getting technical first, it is not illegal for a minor to drink, it is illegal for someone to sell it to them, or to supply them with it. On a practical level, people drink - no laws broken. People under 18 are going to drink, and I've always felt proud that Ultimate tournaments provide a safe environment (but not a coercive one) should someone (of any age) choose to drink. I'd much rather know that a couple of juniors were drinking publicly, knowing what they were drinking, and ready to intervene if necessary, than having them sneak off and swigging from a bottle of vodka in a tent somewhere, scared of getting help if things got out of control for fear of punishment. Look at how many juniors do drink at tournaments, hit 18, and practically become teetotal. Look at how GB juniors handled themselves at Worlds last year. They knew their limits, unlike some of the Swiss, Canadian and US juniors who obviously came from prohibitive environments, had never drunk, and now had the opportunity with little knowledge or experience. Had the prizes been a huge bottle of vodka for the spirit prize (it's been done before) and was due to be given to a junior team, I suspect alarm bells may have been ringing way before the presentation. One final point, Britdisc is a public forum, where anyone can join. We have to be careful of what we say here too. We need public debate like this, but we need to reach sensible consensus, and I don't believe Dan's comments are that helpful. If you don't feel you did anything wrong, then we have a problem that we have to address. Kevin. --- | Kev@cheerful.com Tel: 07968 249437 | The enemy isn't the other side, wherever they draw the line | The enemy is the ruling class that draws the bloody line.