From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Sep 6 10:52:32 2000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) id e869nn607886 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:49:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e869nlp07879 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:49:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from mx1.ft.com (mx1.ft.com [194.128.253.3]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e869nf805496 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:49:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from mx1.ft.com (mx1.ft.com [194.128.253.3]) by mx1.ft.com (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA02967 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:49:38 +0100 Received: FROM ima1.ft.com BY mx1.ft.com ; Wed Sep 06 10:49:32 2000 +0100 Received: from Lotus Notes by ima1.ft.com (IMA Internet Exchange 3.12) id 0012BAB8; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:51:48 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:48:18 +0100 Message-ID: <0012BAB8.N22024@ft.com> From: Paolo.Nistri@ft.com (Paolo Nistri) Subject: FW: bad call? (fwd) To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Memo Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Seems like there's been some banter/discussion re: the contentious last call during the Open final in Heilbronn... read on... Paolo (The 22) ---------------------- Forwarded by Paolo Nistri/MDD/LONDON/FTI on 06/09/2000 10:47 --------------------------- Bart.EDES@oecd.org on 06/09/2000 11:35:28 To: Paolo Nistri/MDD/LONDON/FTI@FTI cc: Subject: FW: bad call? (fwd) his brother plays with Les Invalides! -----Original Message----- From: Alex [mailto:count@basit.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:13 AM To: EuroDisc@ira.uka.de Subject: Re: bad call? (fwd) I would like to introduce myself. I am the person who was involved in the call in the finals from the American team. I would first like to point out that I did not call a strip, I called a foul. I can understand why there would complaints about a strip call as I admit I never had possession of the disc. And as for the play, at stall 7 or 8, Jim Parinella threw me a dump pass a little beyond me and away from Anders Jerhamre, who was defending me. As I went to pancake the disc, Anders came from behind and smacked the entire back of my hand just as I was about to catch the disc, whereupon I instantly called the foul. Unfortunately, we had already had an smaller argument between the two of us earlier in the game, and this one got ugly quickly. I was very angry because I knew that whatever happened to finish the game, it would always be 'tainted' in some people's minds. My behavior was inexcusable but I couldn't believe he was standing there with a straight face and saying that he never touched me when the back of my hand was still tingling. It was impossible that he didn't know he hit me. I was also aggravated because the game should never have come down to that play. We had had a number of chances to put the game away, and we had also given the Swedes a number of opportunities at the end. I was also angry because Anders and I had been teammates when he played with DoG in '95, and now he was putting me in that position. Unfortunately, this whole incident overshadowed what to that point had been a great game between two incredibly evenly matched teams, with both offenses performing almost flawlessly. I was unable to celebrate the victory because of the ending, even though I knew I had made the right call. As I am not on this distribution list, please include me in any relevant responses or further inquiries. Alex de Frondeville Death or Glory James Parinella wrote: > > Did you call "strip" by chance? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:42:19 > From: Johannes Epting <johannesepting> > To: eurodisc <EuroDisc>, chello <edmund.england> > Subject: Re: bad call? > > i was standing next to the field right where it happened; only some > subs where closer to the scene. i heard him make the call, and it was > "strip", not "foul". now noone else but him can know whether he > actually had a tight grip on the disc (control) or whether his > fingers were still "2 millimeters away" from the disc when his > opponent hit it; and since it all happens so fast, i can understand > that both players are firmly convinced of their respective versions, > especially in the given situation. it was a very close call. > > i also had a busload of youngsters (7-13 years old) with me (on the > finals day only, so they have no way of looking at the worlds as a > whole), who were right next to me; they have played tournaments > themselves (www.johannesepting.de/MIT), so they know what ultimate is > all about. we had watched the womens final, which was a perfect > display of it all. they also heard the call ("strip"). > > what followed then was no longer a perfect display: never mind the > audience being on the swedes' side, but the argument was really > heated, and it got dirty. some of my youngsters were even asking me: > "but you told us they can play without referees even at world > championships! yeah, right...", which they would have never thought > of saying after the womens final. i found this quite unfortunate. > > and when the teams met in the middle and did not form the usual > circle, something was definitely wrong; neither them nor i had seen > this before, and it should not have been that way. so in this > respect, one could say that it was a bad call. > > on the other hand, if you followed the media coverage, there was no > mentioning of any "problems" or the like; so the uninitiated had no > way of knowing what had gone on, and to them whether it was a bad > call or not did not matter. the americans won. > > so was it a bad call? it was a bad display of the sport, but only > "members of the family" could tell; and they will keep on playing > anyway. (incidentally, MIT was playing a tournament the following > weekend, and they were all there, despite the experience.) > > johannes > Wir spielen MIT. > > > Date sent: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:18:22 +0200 > > Subject: bad call? > > From: chello <edmund.england> > > To: eurodisc <EuroDisc> > > > Hi, > > > > Do anyone have a comment on the last point on the open final imbetween > > Sweden and U.S.A. Was it a bad call and if so how bad was it? Did >this event > > disturb our common view of ultimate as a game of spirit? > > > > Edmund > > > > Enskede Frisbee Klubb > > > > ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. 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