From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Tue Feb 29 16:58:30 2000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id QAA15463 for britdisc-outgoing; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:57:15 GMT Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15436 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:57:13 GMT Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.171]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13038 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:57:12 GMT Received: from modem-90.erbium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.53.218] helo=simon) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12PpxO-0007ZG-00 for britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <006001bf82d6$144d84a0$f58fbcd4@simon> From: "si" <simon@deerglen.freeserve.co.uk> To: <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Fw: The Tour Format Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:56:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > Hi Tim, > Just a few comments :-) regarding your email to britdisc > > To just say that the seeding problems cause most of the tours problems is > slightly short-sighted !!! > It does cause problems for certain teams, but also has helped to develop the > top flight of ultimate in this country quite considerably. making there be > more than two teams capable of winning events (gun and druids) as was > happening before. > Also this format has helped too give the teams of all standards closer > matches throughout their whole weekend of ultimate and therefore making for > increased skills needed at all levels to win the tight games. > As in the past the better teams were beating the newer teams 15-2 15-1 etc > and as you must be aware playing games like this can be very tedious for the > better teams and very frustrating for the new teams. > > As for worlds being three years away I can tell you now that it does take > longer than twelve months to get a squad working together As world clubs > this year proved. Uti , Chevy , Catch , Bliss, and Twin Peaks, ranked > higher this year than the other British teams that were formed just for > worlds. This must tell you something about keeping squads together???? > Also the top teams last year in this country mainly consisted of geo players > Uti(London), Chevy(Manchester), Catch 21st :-):-)(Leeds and London), Red > (Leicester),Soup(Scotland) , Dough boys(London), etc etc > I can see your point that needing twenty players for a squad dilutes the > other teams but the other side of the coin is that the top teams with big > squads will always be looking to increase their squads with new players(as > older ones retire), which in turn gives the lower team players an incentive > to improve their skills so they can be noticed!! and then when a player > moves teams he gains new experiences to improve his game!! and also leaves a > gap in his last team for another player to fill by improving their skills > and fitness . > > The problem will happen that student teams can't get squads together during > the 4 months rest :-) every summer /during exam time and that's always going > to be the case, as it was when I started playing for Fingers 6 > But somehow we still took a squad of at least seven to virtually every > outdoor and indoor tournament throughout the year as have done Catch22 > sneekeys etc etc over the years, it depends on your commitment to playing > and also how much funds you can get out of your uni or sponsorship from > local pubs etc to help with the cost of tourneys (they have gone up a lot > over the last few years though I'll grant you that). > > As for if a student team does well at student nationals etc??? shouldn't you > all be using TOUR ONE this year as a warm up for the student nationals !!! > Wouldn't that be a logical step??? > > And as for your Swiss tournament structure I don't understand the difference > to the current system we use???? (as we already play against teams who have > won as many games as ourselves!!!! on the Sunday after pool games on the > Saturday) > > As for "having a crack at the top teams" why don't the student teams etc > think about a one off friendly against the top teams or teams of their own > standard throughout the year. And also most of the top teams goto non tour > events. > > Si.b > Chevy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Timothy Rogers <trogers@srv1.mech.ed.ac.uk> > To: <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 2:58 PM > Subject: The Tour Format > > > > I think much of the Tours problems revolve about the current seeding > > structure. > > > > 1) At the moment, if you miss a tour, particularly the first then > > your scuppered if you want to have a crack at the top teams. I know > > its supposed to be 'a tour', but there are loads of players > > (including most students) who cannot afford to go to all tours. > > > > > 2) To compensate for the fact that many players can't go to all > > tours, we need huge teams of 20+ players. Why do we do this? The > > next world clubs is 2 years away. Is it not better to spread the > > talent amonst more competitive teams, and increase the amount of > > pitch time, fitness and skill of British ultimate players? Surely it > > doesn't take more than a season to prepare to play 20 a side. > > Needing so many players encourages super teams, discouraging the > > building of geo and student teams. > > > > 3) Competitive summer tournaments serve as an important bridging gap > > for players who have the basic skills. Where does a student team go > > if they win or do well in student nationals, if they can't compete in > > the Tour and see how far they can go. > > > > > An alternative seeding structure might be to have a Swiss tournament > > structure (play teams who have won as many games as you) to find the > > top 8 on Saturday, or maybe have a few shorter games Saturday > > morning. Both would flatten the seeding structure and avoid too much > > time being spent on the stronger teams gubbing the weaker teams. > > > > Tim > > Ro-Sham-Bo > > > >