From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Jan 12 18:08:10 2000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id SAA25563 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:06:29 GMT Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25551 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:06:27 GMT Received: from york.ac.uk (pump3.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.131]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29973 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:06:26 GMT Received: from cst272.york.ac.uk (cst272.york.ac.uk [144.32.8.100]) by york.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00912; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:05:54 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:05:54 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: pete w <prw102@york.ac.uk> To: rafael freire <raf.freire@bristol.ac.uk> cc: jbc102 <jbc102@york.ac.uk>, BritDisc <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Goaltimate In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.10001121443.E@lang-ah38.lang.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.21.0001121755090.-138957@cst272.york.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk just to elaborate on Raf's comments concerning the 'huge can of worms' that the addition of officials would release upon us and 'the need of players to influence the referee's opinion'. although officials might make ultimate more 'tv-friendly', with the rules as they now stand we simply could not rely on officials to make all of the decisions. consider the pick and fast-count violations. it would take a ridiculous amount of officials to monitor all the players, looking for picks. similarly, what if the official can't hear the count? does he then take the defenders word for it that it was fast? surely this also would be unsatisfactory. i reckon that these examples show that we cannot escape this whole idea of self-regulation between the players involved unless there are some radicxal rule changes! sorry that was a bit of a rant. pete wright (yorkie bar kids) - no i don't want whistles before you ask! ................................................................ We are ready for an unforeseen event that may or may not occur." - Former U.S. Vice-President Dan Quayle ................................................................ On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, rafael freire wrote: > Jaime, > > I took your point this morning that ultimate may well > need officiating if it is to attract tv coverage, but you > seemed to have misinterpreted my reply. At the end of my > e-mail I agreed with you, in that indeed only officiated > sports (yes, I've heard of football) are currently > broadcast on tv. > > My point was that refereeing is not a passive element of > sport necessary for correcting accidental shifts in > advantage, but instead takes an active role in > establishing fairness. Responsibility for fair play > therefore moves from the players to the referee. This > opens up a huge can of worms- such as the referee (who is > not error proof) now has a strong influence on the outcome > of the game or players may influence the referee directly > to obtain a favourable outcome. > > Since I've now been drawn (reluctantly) into this debate, > I don't think officiation of ultimate is the only way it > can get TV coverage. I agree the lack of officiation > is a drawback- most ultimate naive people think it > means the game is uncompetitive. Infact, what I consider > is absent in ultimate is not the competitive side, but > rather the need of players to influence the referee's > opinion. I don't think this is a weakness in our quest > for tv coverage (the reverse in fact), but rather a > challenge for the marketing of the sport. > > Raf > > > On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:41:18 +0000 jbc102 > <jbc102@york.ac.uk> wrote: > > > I'm assuming that Raf is talking about football here, if so is he the > > only person in the world who doesn't realise that football is THE > > biggest sport in the world and doesn't have any trouble attracting > > sponsors. > > > > Jaimie Cross > > Yorkie Bar Kids > > > > rafael freire wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What, so that TV viewers can analyse the super slow-mo > > > and realise how crap the officials are and how they make > > > the outcome of the game a complete lottery ? It wouldn't > > > be very original, but I agree there is an apparently > > > big market for this sort of thing. > > > > > > Raf > >