From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Jun 9 18:47:06 1999 Received: by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04037 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:45:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04031 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:45:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail-gw1.webleicester.net (mailgate.webleicester.co.uk [195.146.160.12]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23255 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:45:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from pii266 (pool-pri2-037.webleicester.co.uk [195.146.164.37]) by mail-gw1.webleicester.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA17692 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:42:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <003701beb2a0$20b38520$25a492c3@pii266> From: "Ben Ravilious" <bravil@webleicester.co.uk> To: "BRITDISC" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Ultimate growth Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:43:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Chris, Thanks for your email. Your points addressed: 1. Who is this 'management style' letting down? Its letting down the Juniors, Women and Open teams who do not have the benefits of freshers fairs, university funding, university facilities, time to organise stuff, and a nearby bunch of mates to go play ultimate with. 2.Why is there a connection being made between the way the BUF is structured and its ability to pay salaries? Because by charging individuals (and yes, that means players paying a bit more than before) we can get a reliable income with which to employ someone. 3. similarly, is it not possible to keep a database of players and keep in contact with them without changing to individual membership? No! Hands up all those willing to maintain a database of 2000 people. It took me many weeks just to get our team contact database up to date. 4.What do players actually *want* from the BUF (or whatever it might become)? I accept that the proposal lacked a clear enough list of benefits for players - something for version 2 - promise! Suggestions as to what people would like from the organisation would be welcomed. I see the benefits falling into two categories: Tangible: Newsletter,discounts on equipment, discs, insurance, etc, Intangible: Publicity, increased recruitment, development of the sport. A lot of people want to have the intangible benefits but most don't have the time to make them happen - fair enough - with an administrator these people can "put their money where their mouth is." 5.The cost of maintaining the information base and publishing it (using emails and www to keep it low?) is perhaps where our money should go. Thats where it would go - the newsletter being the single most expensive proposed benefit of membership. And if you think Internet is sufficient to keep in contact with everyone then you're probably not fussed about whether we keep new teams, schools and publicity contacts informed. 6. If you fancy playing for a team at a tournament, would there really be anything stopping you from doing so? At Ross-on-Wye - No, Thats not an official BUF Event At the Nationals/Tour events - Yes, (Chris Hughes would be stopping you!!!) Rosters are already a requirement, policed membership would only be a small step further - every other country does it! 7. Are we not at risk of introducing more complication if there is a different >administration style for junior/student teams to that for other teams Probably true - In fact the students who responded didn't seem too concerned about having autonomy and most just wanted to remain part of the main organisation. On the other hand, judging by your posting (I assume from your ...ac.uk email address you are a student) some students would prefer to retain the current set-up, therefore *maybe* students should be running their own affairs? I'm not a fan of partition myself and I can't see us telling students they're not welcome at Association events! 8. what if you're a (cliched) 'poor student' and you want to play for an open team? Doesn't matter what team you play for. You pay your association membership (we have proposed a cheaper unwaged/student rate) and you play for whoever you like. 9. Finally, with regard to paying fees, isn't it logical that you pay according to how much involvement you have. Some players may only play in say two/three tournaments a year. Would £25 for this (and the newsletter telling them about tournaments they didn't go to) appeal? Maybe. Or look at it another way: Many? players don't get to hear about tournaments because they don't have Internet or their team contact is lazy, would £25 to be kept informed be too much? Might not regular communication actually encourage participation? Alternatively, we *could* charge a fee each time a non-member attends a tournament - but this sounds like tournament tax which I think most would like to see abolished? You decide! 10. Here's a suggestion: the BUF runs the info service, and represents Ultimate to outsiders. Players wanting to be registered pay a nominal charge. This service should be well-advertised to students who have played at uni and are moving on... ...and if you don't believe it can be done for a nominal fee, then check out the sixdegrees website (www.sixdegrees.com) for an example of free information exchange...its reliant on advertising and the input of its members (it even has an Ultimate discussion group). Just think what companies might want to advertise to young, athletic graduates. A newsletter could be published online if popular enough...find a friend with a printer for hard copies. "Let them eat cake", frankly! Who is going to run the info service? Who is going to deal with registration/charges? Who is going to approach these companies? Who is going to publish an online newsletter? Are you volunteering? We've been here a thousand times before - you simply can't expect people to give up that much free time - that is why we haven't had Ultimatum for over a year, that is why the website is out of date, that is why we haven't kept the school teams and THIS is why we must pay someone to do the boring stuff. Keep talking....the more feedback the better. Remember nobody has decided anything yet. This is still just a proposal. Cheers Ben PS, Chris, I have a couple of contacts in Newcastle for you which I will email to you separately. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Gibbs <chris.gibbs@sunderland.ac.uk>