From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Fri Oct 9 13:55:56 1998 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.8) id NAA14605 for britdisc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:30:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from na-ex-bridge2.nai.com (na-ex-bridge2.nai.com [208.228.228.65]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14422 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:29:49 +0100 (BST) Received: by na-ex-bridge2.nai.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <T7XA1GYL>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:25:14 -0700 Message-ID: <178EA92097A9D111AD0900A0C99B4EFC4F21F5@UK-EXCHANGE1> From: "Oakley, Caedman" <Caedman_Oakley@nai.com> To: "'Britdisc'" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Big Funky vs World Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:56:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Del wrote: >Having played on a weaker team in the old tournament format I never learnt >anything by getting bageled by Hombres/Stan/Druids. Does anybody really >believe that a valid exchange of Ultimate ideas is magically going to occur >as the 'top' team cruises to an easy victory and then heads off to their >tents for whatever post match relaxation took their fancy? It seems that individuals on weaker teams will see things that they can do to improve their game, but I agree that _teams_ don't magically get better ideas - in fact if you think back to the onset of the "Shotgun O", I played on a team at the time that it would have suited very well, but they were so in awe of the fact that the top 3 teams were using it, that they felt that they couldn't learn it, and that they needed to win with standard O first, instead of adding it to their bow as a second string. There is a fine line between bringing on new players and increasing the competitivity of teams... <SNIP> >The Tour format has worked wonders for the standard of Ultimate in this >country (it is about time we reflected that in international >competitions-something that Red Lights remarked to me at Eastbourne) but >nonetheless something must be done about the 7/8/9/10 place 'fringe' teams. Del - do you mean UK 7/8/9/10? If so, the gap between the top and 10th team is closing at a far faster rate than the top teams are improving - I think that Chevy, Druids and Catch have had to look to play hard games against all those teams this season, which in previous years they wouldn't... >With this in mind I would like to add support to Chris's idea of using your >last tour placing to determine your next seeding with the overral points >system determining seedings for the Nationals. Combined with this years >current format of allowing one or two more open tournaments that should give >all teams a more even shot. It would also highlight teams who are >consistently good rather than a one off good result. Well said. >As for beginners being unable to see excellent Ultimate being played at >finals and semis that is a real shame but one which, unless someone is >prepared to organise massive tournaments able to cater for the whole BUF >community, we are forced to live with. The way to do this is for there to be more subscription to non-tour events - here we are discussing the fact that the tour format is going to change, and that people won't get to see top teams in action, and yet we don't go to non-tour events. yes there should be a split between top 16 and bottom 16 - yes there should be a better way of seeding, and yes, there should be a crossover between the top n teams of DivB and the bottom n teams of DivA - when that should happen is anybody's guess (good luck Chris!) BUT we need to make sure that teams do go to non-tour events if they can... Non-tour events are a great way to get people playing - make them all Hat tournaments for all I care, but at least have a mix of top and bottom teams, so that weaker teams get to play against better teams, and get to see top teams in action. I can think of 4 tournaments off hand that would be worth going to, just from the atmosphere... Red co-ed is always good, Kowpat 97 was stunning, and it is an outrage that Kowpat 98 had to be cancelled, Cam 98 was a great tournament from what I read, and Ross is just great... At the moment we are in a state where we don't have enough teams to split down into small subgroups, and we are too large for one tour, so the logical conclusion is to go to 2 tours, and play more non-tour events too. Cads