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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:24:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: paul meaney <paul.meaney@molecular-medicine.oxford.ac.uk>
To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Subject: the aftermath of The nationals aftermath
In-Reply-To: <3192@phidelta.demon.co.uk>
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(apologies,this is a long 'un - please skip if you don't care!)
Hello all,
I have been following the debate concerning the points
raised by Andy 'whinger' Cotgreave (now, not many people know that that's
his full name) about the nationals, and I must confess at being stunned at
the indifferent "if-you-can-do-better-then-do-it-yourself" attitude of the
organisers.
Stuff the breakfast (10 quid per TEAM is MORE than reasonable, if
it was 10 quid per head for bread and jam, then I would be miffed), sod
the closing ceremony (dark, cold, 'orrible weather). The two things that
must be addressed are: spirit and game length.
Andy "whinger" C wrote
> > Now, I know that long games are better than short, but expecting players to
> > play over 4 hours of games without a real break is not only gruelling, but
> > potentially dangerous....
Wayne 'diplomat' R responded...
> It does, however make you more aware of how fit your team is, how efficient
> your offense and defense is and how much time you spent drinking instead of
> sleeping on Saturday night. You'll be better prepared for next time.
now from what I gather, games had a 2 1/2 hour cap, and first to
21 (information from Andy Standring ex- monks now Druid Scum II so if I am
wrong, hit him,not me!). Sorry kiddies, if this was a mickey mouse, middle
of the season, first to 13/ or forty five minutes let's finish up and go
to the bar god I shouldn't have eaten that kebab last night tournament,
then fair enough. At the world chmpionships where full rules applied (I
believe Ian Stebbins mantioned 'game slots') Teams played in one time
slot in the morning and one in the afternoon and had at maximum two
consecutive games. I mean look, there is a possibility, given your
scheduling than some poor sods woulds have had to play SEVEN HOURS
CONSTANMT ULTIMATE.
THAT IS DANDGEROUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as I say, three consecutive 45 min ganes are do-able, but nobody
can expect to give their all in the last five points of the third game
after having played two conseutive games previously TO TWENTY ONE!!!
What if that match is important? You might as well give the other teams a
free win for gods sake
If your problem is scheduling to account for the loss in light
then have the damn event EARLIER ON THE YEAR, or have it with shorter
games, but on this score you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Now , spirit. Sorry Wayne, but your comments were ill- advised to
say the least.
>
> > Why Chris could not organise a proper spirit vote is beyond me...
>
> Try running a tournament and playing in a team that is determined to get
> to and win (if possible) the Final and putting 100 per cent into either or
> both of these objectives
sorry chief, but that is no excuse. You agreed to ORGANISE AND
RUN THE 1996 BRITISH NATIONAL OUTDOOR ULTIMATE CHAMPIONSHIPS, not an
outdoor practice followed by a piss up. If you were not prepared to make a
sacrifice then you should have not entered into the arrangement. I am sure
many tournament organisers have given up playing in their tounament (I
have), or at least had enough people helping them so that the TD could go
and play knowing that the tournament was in safe hands. If you didn't
think of this then your tounament plannig was flawed to say the least.
that is one of the first things you do!!!!!
>
> > (for those who weren't there, none of the organisers ...
>
> all 2 of us (maybe that's our problem)
>
yep!!! you'll know for next time.
> >...thought to collect spirit votes....
>
> and nobody volunteered
I am sorry to all on britdisc but COBBLERS!!!! Any half decent
tournament director knows: WHEN IN DOUBT, DELEGATE!!!!. what was wrong
with grabbing one of the other druids, or one of the hundreds of people
there and saying "'scuse me, but do you mind going round and asking for
spirit votes." That is a pile of garbage and shows (to me) how little the
sprit of the game seems to be valued. That should have been one of the
first things on your TD scedule (IMHO)
andy C wrote:
> > This *was* the National Finals after all, so every aspect of our sport should
> > be afforded the utmost respect
Wayne replied:
>
> So why should Chris and I work so hard to organise it in less than 3 months, to
> find that we were the only option that could guarantee a venue and then be told
> that it's a rip off and you're unhappy with it ? We could have just NOT had a
> Nationals, couldn't we ?
Sorry Wayne but Andy C wins here. You never answered his point, you
just moaned. So by not providing a counter- argument, I have to agree
with Andy!!. This was the 1996 Ultimate Nationals and Spirit of the Game was
ignored. that has really incensed me. Maybe it's the Sneeekys legacy, but
I hold Spirit in damn high regard. I mean for gods sake people,
it's the only thing that separates Ultimate from any other run of the mill
sport - our self refereeing status DEPENDS on SOTG. If we ignore spirit, then
we could go the way of the Americans - have referees and red cards and all that
routine crap. We need spirit ,and thankfully I have only seen a few
displays of *really* bad spirit in this country over the past nine years,
and to see SOTG ignored and left to a last minute "Oh shit - what about
spirit, ah sod it 'Simon!!! - see what people think willya' " Is a load of
horsemuck
To those in Layout Dreams (nice hats, btw) - I am not criticising
the tournament. What I am concerned about is that you (thankfully) put
forward a bid and then organised a tournament onm this scale without
seeming to draw on the vast wealth of tournament organisational knowledge
here in the UK (Scotty, Charlie Mead, Toby Green - to name but a few). A
couple of humble phone calls along the lines of "er.....how do you do this?"
and right now I wouldn;t be feeling so damn mad!!!!!
I realise that people want to let this lie. It is done. I just
hope that spirit will not be treeated with such a cavalier attitude in
future National events. That should be a source of concern to all who hold
SOTG in high regard.
Paul,
PS - e- mail me in person if you violently disagree. I am pretty
good at flame wars!
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Kryten: sir, you must forgive Mr Rimmer, he's suffering from a stress-
related nervous disorder
Lister: Next time I see him he'll be suffering from a fist- related teeth
disorder
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