From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Oct 8 21:17:57 1997 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15640 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:58:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from helium.btinternet.com (helium.btinternet.com [194.72.6.229]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA15628 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:58:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from snow.btinternet.com [194.72.6.226] by helium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xJ2NS-0007DU-00; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:06:38 +0000 Received: from btinternet.com [195.99.48.54] by snow.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xJ2GF-0004ns-00; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:59:12 +0100 Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.0061726b2e4a4a204434464130303039@MAPI.to.RFC822> To: britdisc <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Jefferson <Mark.Jj@btinternet.com> Subject: The Tour debate. Date: Wed, 08 Oct 97 20:42:10 +0100 ( + ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi All! Thank you to everyone who responded to my concerns about the tour expressed in a message to Britdisc posted Mon. 8th. Having digested some very intelligent points I hope I can clarify my own position and explain a few misunderstandings. I probably never will be happy with everything that happens in Ultimate but will always be happy with most things. After reading messages, particularly from the Ultim-8 committee, I may be no happier with the actual issue at hand but it has made me stop and think a little more about what I am actually asking for. Thanks to messages from people like Si Hill and Andy Cotgreave I've now got a much better picture of what actually happens behind the scenes so to speak. I think greater openness would help here - both so that people know what's going on, but more importantly so that people like myself get a more accurate view of the sheer volume of work the BUF undertakes. But back to the tour. I think the responses I received personally, as well as those posted to Britdisc can be, generally, divided into two groups - those who support the tour strongly, and those who have reservations. I was not surprised to see that the supporters were largely people who benefited from the tour whilst the more cautious amongst us were the ones who seem to suffer. The rhetoric of my last message apparently confused what I was saying, so I shall be crystal clear now: I do not want an end to the tour. I understand and support the benefits it has for the country's top teams. They deserve the right to play in whatever environment they believe best suits them. But I think that for those players to tell me this is the way forward for the British game is naive. I am not talking now, and indeed never was, about the improvement of a "team" or player. I am talking about improving standards of Ultimate throughout the UK. Students, (including school teams) ARE, I insist, where the strength of Ultimate lies. I heard it said many times when I competed in county athletics that the success of the nation in five or ten years time could be gauged at club championships, county events, the Milk Cup..... The tour is damn good training for those attending world events and I agree with Wayne Davey that the tour should decide who goes to International competitions, but this is most certainly NOT a strategy for development. That is what I took issue with, and I'm sorry if my over-emotional scribblings made this unclear. What I object to when it comes down to it is the short-sightedness of Ultim-8: fantastically good for today's top teams but bugger all use to those which will replace them in five or ten years time. I wrote the initial message because I felt that while Shotgun, Catch, Druids etc (forgive me for using your names) were playing (arguably) the best Ultimate of their lives there was a bloody great big hole in the National game where - for want of a better collective noun - students should have been. I wrote the message because, I felt, the shadow of the tour - a great achievement in itself - was masking this hole. I felt, and still feel, that the tour will, in time, damage the British game if it is not accompanied by an equally successful strategy to raise standards in upcoming players. I began this with a acknowledgement of the dedication of BUF officers - particularly, for the purposes of this message, those on the Ultim-8 committee. It has only been in the last couple of days, as the debate unfolded on Britdisc, that I have come to fully comprehend the size of the task I am demanding, and for this oversight, I owe an apology. I for one have my own hills to climb and could not afford the time to attempt anything of this size right now, and I know very few people do. I owe an apology to the Ultim-8 committee if what I said appeared to belittle the work you have, and continue to do. But even though I now appear rather hypocritical, demanding more work in one breath, and flatly disassociating myself from that work in another, I still feel it needed to be said. I hope this time that the message is clearly understood, and I hope the debate continues. One day this sport will be massive, so we should make use of its intimacy while we can. I know more than a few football fans who would kill to be having this discussion with the FA. Thank you, (again) for getting this far. I look forward to reading more opinions. Mark Jefferson, Whiplash.